Did Feminism Get It Wrong?

Kaitlyn Lewis, News Editor and James Sears, Staff Writer

Two students debated feminism on Oct. 24 in the Social Sciences auditorium in light of the controversies and conversations that have been taking place on campus regarding the men’s right group, KSU Men (KSUM).

Brian Clyne, president of Atheists United, challenged Sage Gerard, president of KSUM, earlier this semester and asked Dr. Michael Sanseviro, the Dean of Student Success, to moderate the debate. Gerard argued that feminism “got it wrong”, while Clyne defended the current state of feminism. The debate allowed both students time to present their arguments, rebuttal and answer the audience’s questions.

“[Feminism] has a normative and actionable element that has been causing damage to innocent people,” Gerard said. “And when we look at that damage and the lack of accountability and lack of integrity of the movement in action, we are left to conclude that it is not consistent with its purported goals and values.”

To support his claim, Gerard pointed to events when women assaulted men, and when feminists “doctored” statistics to show that more women are raped than men.

“Those of you who think I’m just focusing on the fringe or extreme portions of feminism fail to understand that I’m not just looking at incidental feminists, I’m looking at influential feminists—the ones who represent the movement in action,” Gerard said.

Gerard said that a well-known feminist writer, Mary Koss, admitted to deliberately ignoring male rape victims from her studies and included women who were not rape victims.

“This is a false statistic that has been discredited, but yet it still remains and is cited by government, by other programs and her methodology is still used today,” Gerard said.

Furthermore, Gerard pointed to the Georgia state law which seems to assume that only women can be raped. Gerard showed the audience section 16-6-1 of the O.C.G.A. of the Georgia Code on his PowerPoint presentation.

“A person commits the offense of rape when he has carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will,” reads the law.

“Feminism has become something that is so ingrained in our cultural values, that we’re scared to challenge it,” Gerard said.

Clyne, who defended feminism during the debate, started by saying that feminism varies depending on the source and it is illogical to say that feminism “got itself wrong”.

“Feminism is the idea that men and women should be treated fairly and equally no matter where they are or what they do,” Clyne said. He explained there are extremes to feminism and therefore argued that the ideology itself cannot be blamed.

“Not every Muslim is an ISIS member,” Clyne said. “Not every Christian is a Westboro Baptist Church member. The actions from an ideology cannot be blamed on the ideology itself.”

Clyne argued that Gerard employed the “straw woman fallacy” and built up feminism as a weak concept so he could easily destroy it.

“[Gerard] is saying, ‘Hey, there’s problems with the legal system; and its feminists’ fault,’” Clyne said in an interview following the debate. “Feminism becomes the straw man; whereas, the legal system is the thing that can actually take care of it.”

Clyne claimed that false rape accusations are not feminism’s responsibility, but the legal system’s responsibility. Clyne said the same holds true for academia.

“One in five women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime,” Clyne said. “I’ve got two little girls. That means if I have three more, one of my daughters will be raped or sexually assaulted.”

Clyne concluded that men’s rights is an issue, but promoting it as the opposite of feminism is not the way to promote an ideology.

A Q-and-A session followed Gerard’s and Clyne’s presentations. Clyne questioned Gerard about rumors of him recording women and reporting people on campus. Gerard confirmed he recorded women and he knows he intimidates some. Clyne then asked if Gerard would apologize to the women he has intimidated and swear he would not do it again. Gerard replied saying Clyne was asking a loaded question.

“That is, in essence, saying that I intended to intimidate, when that is not true,” Gerard said. “Anything that I have done, especially recording, is done for fear of my own safety; for fear of what might happen to me, since other people in my position have been intimidated just for talking about issued affecting men and boys.”

An audience member asked Gerard how feminism could get it right. Gerard said that feminism presumes the dominance of masculinity and male malice. Gerard said there has to be a presence that holds accountable the feminists who cause harm today.

Members from KSU’s YESbody organization, including president Carlynn Sharpe, were present in the audience. YESbody will be hosting a demonstration this week on the Campus Green to protest KSUM upcoming event on Nov. 1, “Male Students in Peril”.

“The debate skipped over several important aspects of the discussion,” Sharpe said in an email following the debate. “I appreciated what both parties had to say, but neither of them painted a clear picture of what modern feminism actually is.”

Sharpe said she did not like Clyne’s understanding of feminism, which was based “based solely on women’s oppression and treating women with respect.”

As for Gerard’s presentation, Sharpe said, “I am particularly interested in men’s issues, and I often use a feminist perspective to analyze what men are experiencing. To have someone tell me that feminism ignores men’s issues is insulting.”